Greeley Council Thumbs Nose at Existing Mom and Pop's

Ma and Pa businesses in Greeley Colorado need to get hollerin' at the Greeley City Council. Greeley Council passed a resolution to lower development fees last Tuesday night. I really try to stay out of these battles as the public rarely gets a real transparent look at the goodies being traded across the table in these type of negotiations. But I can't help but notice Greeley's undies keep being exposed when it comes to long term strategic direction for this city. Time to get serious when electing these officials folks. Greeley isn't just a podunk town any longer.

The new fee break being handed around comes with a stench. Why are businesses coming in now getting sweet kissy-face deals at older businesses' expense. Why give one business a competitive advantage over existing businesses. The City's job is to court specific industry targets and development--not to wade into competitive positioning. It's like the honeymoon for all the Ma and Pa's struggling to stay afloat is over and now the best bedroom suite is being whipped out for new and expanding businesses.

The big problem is the sheets on that honeymoon bed aren't clean.

This strategy may appear fine and dandy on the surface for those businesses like Sooper's being romanced. After all it is an unfortunate common practice deployed by corporate interests and developers to sweet-talk councils into lowering their operational expenses. But, I'll argue, Greeley isn't every city and it has carved out special problems for itself that need a special strategy. Time to look those sweet-talkers in the face and get some real political backbone (and better advisors). Not to mention that the ugly smaller ducklings hanging back against the wall need to be asked to dance too.

What about infrastructure for the aging, decaying, poorer parts of town? What about redevelopment funds to draw people back into the sectors that have those empty store fronts? Who is going to get stuck with the bill to support all this infrastructure ten years from now? What about finding new ways to perk up those saggy bags under Greeley's eye and put facades in all those closed store fronts down 8th avenue? What about fluffing up the education sectors? The culture art activities are where again? Getting serious about getting monies and marketing together for a "real" Farmer's market? A generic, "sounds-good-to-me", tax base strategy will not get the job done except for those trying to keep Greeley a low-wage industry dumping ground for snail-snot companies with bad business practices.

JBS Swift Sinks Good-Ship-Lollipop

I get what the Council thinks it will achieve. By lowering these rates they will get more business in and might draw a few opportunities away from other, family-friendly, neighboring towns. That's not what the bigger forces in power have planned for Greeley.

Greeley's Barrio
Have You Seen Ma an Pa Lately

First of all, in the case of Sooper's, it is going to go where the studies show there is enough market to survive. It is trying to stay competitive with the well capitalized Safeway expansions and that's all good, in the long run, for the consumer. But helping them out? Back door subsidies for special interests are not any prettier viewed locally than they are nationally. Are we going to do this every time a food store wants a little more elbow room? Whisper a few sweet corporate words in a Councilperson's ear about ...."just can't quite make it happen with those fees and taxes..." and off flies the dress and the romance begins.

We need savvy deal makers instead of social engineers at the city helm. Someone who can see past the first dance and date. One of the bolder early strategies of Walmart in rural areas was to open up stores close to their smaller competitors, wait until the competition's ship sunk, then close the store and allow the regional store to service everybody. Is Greeley going to subsidize this type of activity too. Do the existing Mom and Pop's really not in market position to expand or move going to have to float the bigger corporate machines with minimum wage jobs as they, supposedly, roll into town to bring all these new job opportunities?

Who has the Greeley Town Council's ear?

Oh that's right, the Northern Colorado Economic dudes and dudettes have it. Well Greeley City Council just danced really pretty for their "economically 1970 minded" counterparts. As I have said in earlier postings--it is pretty clear Greeley has lined itself up to be the economic armpit of Northern Colorado by making poor decisions on what type of companies (JBS Swift is one that comes to mind) to groom for life in Greeley. Now, by showing its undies and willingness to cut rates for low returns, Greeley has just thrown open the doors to continue this type of snail-snotter corporate development. And Ma and Pa will be helping taxpayers float these boats.

Thank you Greeley City Council.

Greeley needs a better plan, better advisers, and full-time dedicated politicians to pull it out of the position it has allowed itself to be pushed into. Redevelop the side of town where people only make $20k a year. Get that plan working for pumping the Farmer's Market and snag those funds you flipped your nose at. Make a strategic plan to lower the rates for the types of businesses that bring in stable families and living wage jobs. Attract new types of industry--not just ANY type of industry. Make a target and aim for it. City Council may not have advanced economic degress but haven't you guys ever played Sim City? Promote education and weave it throughout all age groups in the city. Make a thriving viable city-square out of the old barrio areas and bring in small businesses, artist studios, and revive some of those cool old buildings like the Kress. Get people walking around town and talking to each other instead of doing the Stepford family thing on the West end of town. Bring the Munsters and the Stepfords together and mix them all up--a healthy economy is a diverse economy with a strong Ma and Pa sector.

Otherwise we are all going to end up being the hairy old arm pit of Northern Colorado and a low-wage service community to Fort Collins. The professionals will live in Fort Collins, spend money in Fort Collins, develop Fort Collins quality of life, and drive into Greeley everyday for work and drive home at night to live and kick up their heels. Meanwhile Greeley will have low rent, low wage, decaying infrastructure left to service the retirees who have stuck it out, the toxic factory jobs, and a bunch of abandoned buildings. The only green in town will be the castle on the hill called UNC.

Voters in Greeley should look carefully at who they elect this fall. Out with the old and in with the new. Time to look outside the box for answers and quit shooting down ideas simply because they come from "outsiders". And ask your handy-dandy economic development industry pushers--just what that candy-coated advice they are giving you is going to lead to in the long run. Besides the shiny-badge editorials from their buddies in the local newspaper of course.

Time to build your own spine Greeley and quit laying down in the middle of the road so the rest of Northern Colorado can dump on you.

Just my opinion... of course.

Just Don't Recall the Chicken and the Fish

Okay I can't believe I am blogging about cows. Seriously. But I'm going to do it anyway.

While I grew up in a rural area and have flung a cow pie or two in my life I thought I had left that part of my life behind. I want to go on record here as never once tipping any cow. Well before I drop all that baggage on the sidewalk of life I did do some research in the late 90's on mad cow disease and drove back and forth to the Midwest passing the melodic stench of the feedlots. Okay, well, there was rBGH too come to think about it. And the time I did the community cows shot for a marketing campaign. The cow tried to eat my hair. How can someone just forget that experience.

Gosh I should probably just get this over with. Tip-toe through the cow-pucky so to speak. Wait, wait, I do have one more memory--I also dehorned a cow my sophomore year at the high school ag farm. Part of a well-rounded educational program.

What triggered this memory lane trip you ask? This morning, on my news rounds, I read about the ground beef recall at the JBS USA beef-packing plant in Greeley.* I also read that the public relations team for the local plant is saying something to the tune of "It has already been done, did, been et." Basically the public relation person doesn't seem to know why the recall took so long to announce but notes that these issues come up regularly at this time of year.

To be honest I remember other recalls in the past. But all I remember is that they happened in Greeley. The meat brand names don't stick. I am not certain shoppers have a lot of branding loyalty when it comes to meat. Perhaps they should. It might improve things for everyone concerned. Including the branding of the City of Greeley. Then again maybe we can become known as Greeley--Home of the Pathogen that Ate the Public. There's a screen play in there somewhere I'm sure. Maybe a reality show.

I digress. Have I mentioned my morbid sense of humor? New to town I am wondering if I should interpret that company spokesmodel statement to mean we all should just "Get over it." "There's no damages so you can't blame us, fine us, or cause us too much grief." or "Oh well, maybe next time we will announce it as soon as we know something's up--if you're lucky."

I've done public relations. I know the game. Especially considering JBS is worldwide. They know the game as well. But somewhere there has to be some ethics and accountability in the case of public health. We are what we eat. I have no desire to be a walking diseased microbe. Then again I'd like to see my Uncle actually make money selling his beef cattle again.

Ethics are standards in a company that come above the letter of the law. Supposedly. Although sometimes pretty words are made without any serious intent to create the actions behind those words. I don't work at the plant so I can't comment on the actions other than the obvious failure in contrast to this JBS statement from their corporate website

JBS’s Fresh Approach To Beef Safety.

Like everything we do at JBS^™, we’re taking a fresh and proactive approach to beef safety. We do it by focusing on preventing contamination rather than reacting to it. By optimizing the use of interventions and critical control points with repeated, aggressive attacks on microorganisms throughout the entire production process, JBS’s beef safety is second to none.

JBS’s Multiple Hurdle Intervention Program is a comprehensive six-step carcass pasteurization process developed to fight pathogens including E. coli 0157:H7, Salmonella, Listeria and Campylobacter. JBS is at the forefront of the industry in preventing and detecting food-borne pathogens through improved scientific knowledge, technology and testing procedures.

Not that I am cynical here or anything. I am not used to living in a town with a meat bleeding, grinding, packing plant. But I did work in a chemistry lab once. Yes, for pay. I know how to pipette like a mad woman and I know how deadly and daring pathogens can be especially in the face of a local government that thus far I have discovered tends to be very protective about these lower wage grimy corporate labor jobs .

I also discussed with my Uncle switching to raising organic beef ten years ago--both for profit and for the community tribe's health. At ninety-three he was still running three-hundred and fifty cows almost single-handed and complained about mega corporate control over the auction process. I gave him thoughts on breaking that control. He gave me thoughts on my "frumpy hippie-chick with too much education" ideas. I still love him anyway. Hardest working man I've ever met.

But maybe he is right. About the frumpy hippie-chick part. I just don't put a lot of stock into large unwieldy food production systems. I think it should be local and sustainable whenever possible. Call me a radical. I think local government needs to invest more in local sustainability and locally owned small businesses. The big guns can fend for themselves. They get more capital every time I have to go into the local stores and do not have any options but to buy their products.

So the question that came to my mind this morning, all right I am getting there, is what consequences to the JBS company can there be when the source of the contamination isn't a household branded name. Meaning JBS doesn't lick it and stick it on the meat packages. At least, I don't recognize JBS, as a consumer. Neither do my local tour guides.

Does a meat slaughterhouse even worry about consumer branding? I would think the packaging plant is in the supply chain for other meat retailers. Otherwise known as a "middleman". For example DOLE took a big hit on the bad spinach gig a while ago--deservedly or not. The tainted spinach was sourced to its production but DOLE took the brunt of that recall. But in the case of JBS, here we have, or at least I think we have, a nonspecific wholesale label that produces the hamburger good and then packages it and distributes it under several brand names. Swift carried a lot of the primary relationships with wholesalers and was taken over by JBS (which was the largest beef processor in South America before the buy-out) if my zoom through their corporate press release history is correct. The holding company is S & C Holdco 3 Inc.

In other words JBS is a slaughter house with little direct end consumer accountability and is third in an industry that looks like an oligopoly. Tyson Foods is a competitor. (If I have the process incorrect I am sure a good public relations person worth those big bucks will be sending me an email soon). Hence the image hit on the JBS corporate family, with the faulty processing, probably isn't going to be long term. You and I really don't have an option to just stop buying their products when we shop to send them a message where it hurts--the wallet. Instead there is a kind of trickle down effect that their wholesale customers give if people lose faith in the quality of the meat they are buying. The impact of shoddy practices, if that is the case, is lessened and removed from each incident. Read this as "fewer long term losses to the JBS company and less money spent on image repair".

So this is why their PR types can be a bit more cheeky and a whole lot less apologetic. The public isn't listening real closely until someone dies and it hits CNN.

I decided to hunt up some obligatory facts. Then I stumbled on the following commentary on the USDA's page (not that I am a big fan of the USDA but they do put out a lot of miscellaneous reports that are seemingly unconnected internally but can be puzzled out if someone is desperate enough and a regular insomniac like me. Or simply isn't a stampede fan and has beef on the brain).

ERS/USDA Briefing Room - Food Safety: Labeling and Traceability

How can there be a market for safe food when safety cannot be observed? Food that is contaminated with disease-causing pathogens may look, smell, and taste like food that is free of pathogens.

* If consumers cannot observe differences until it is too late, will food suppliers have any incentive to produce safer foods? Will manufacturers and suppliers be compensated for their time and costs involved in producing safer foods?
_______________

So I guess I am not the only one wondering just what it will take to instill better practices in the mass production markets. And the second question behind the * makes me even more nervous. After all what incentive do the mega-processors have in producing safer foods if they don't face strong enough direct public consequences. We have to rely on the wholesale accounts to pressure for changes? Oh yeah like that is going to happen. I doubt the wholesale accounts have many alternatives like, say for example, importing Argentina beef in the vast quantities needed. There are many reasons that won't happen--not the least Americans in Beef Central probably aren't going to opt for foreign beef regardless of quality or price protections. And, in my view, I am pretty sure foreign beef has less 'trackability' in their controls and restrictions on it. At least in nonindustrialized countries.

Ah yes, we are back to that all American beautiful concept of being too big to fail. How aware, lately, we consumers have become of this concept. But do we understand just how deeply entrenched the problem is in market place other than the obvious financial arena.

Therein lies a second rub. Government regulation or lack thereof.

Following the trend of thought on the USDA site, these government types seem to think that the idea of traceability helps to counter this growing concern to our food supply. They suggest that by ensuring that the meat can be tracked back to the contamination point that increased penalties on the food processors might do the trick. At the same time the USDA questions if Americans will be willing to pay for increased food security.

Well I think we all know how that goes when the big guns have fingers buried deep in political pockets. JBS reported sales of $6,231,100,000 last year and has 21,200 employees (Dun and Bradstreet 2009). That buys a lot of political power. Consumers don't have that kind of power unless they act collectively. Essentially the slap on the rump turns into a thump on the fingers with a promise that things will get better and just a few dollars in fines to make it look good.

It seems to me that either way this road goes the cost to the consumer is going to go up. Fines and penalties and increased insurance premiums are going to raise operational costs leading to increased prices at the supermarket just the same as better practices will increase operational costs and raise the end price. Wouldn't it be better, even logical, if the USDA just enforced better safety practices?

That sounds like a good plan to me.

Do I have a better idea. Well. At first I was thinking that if the food processor had to put their brand prominently on the consumer end packaging maybe that would help. A company afraid of losing market share can find more ethics out in the pasture really quick when their name is in front of the consumer's face. But then I realized that consumers have short term memory deficits when it comes to actually reading labels anyhow and the wholesalers aren't going to switch accounts unless they have a viable alternative. This industry has been consolidating for the last couple of decades. Alternatives don't grow on trees. Plus I would think the packing plant has an insurer paying their actual losses. The premiums will rise making the insurance companies much happier and consequentially controlling the actual cash flow/capital loss to the packaging plant.

Arrgh. So much for accountability in the food chain supply. Maybe I should have turned this blog piece into a chant on why each community needs to concentrate on building sustainable food and water systems. Is it too late? Farmer's markets anyone? Farmer's markets with organic beef for sale? Double aargh. Enough cow chat.

So, um. Well. Um. No, not really... to answer my own question. I don't have any reasonable solutions for this topic. Other than eating fish and chicken until the cows come home. And I haven't been impressed with the fish selection locally. I'm in the middle of the country though so I won't go into that rant. However the upside exists for some segments. When the chicken processors get in trouble again and the fish are depleted I guess the soybean farmers will rise in influence.

Anyone else out there have one? A solution, not a beef.

*JBS acquired Swift in 2007.

Where is the Little Guy in Greeley Politics?

After a morning trip to Safeway to purchase fresh white fish for my brother's father's day dinner, I was amused to find a posting from Greeley's Tribune's Gnarly Trombone on the self-service checkout lanes around town. I like this Gnarly Dude. Gnarly has more media spunk than some.

I had never seen one of these self-checkout lanes until I came to Greeley. Although I have read about them in retail industry papers. There are some other technology revolutions in store for shoppers too. But I don't think we will see these all at once. For one labor union's can't be too pleased about swapping out people for techno-chips and hand held inventory devices. Secondly, as every good marketeer knows, you have to soften up the public for innovative changes that effect their routine habits or be lynched on the town plaza.

I have a good friend from Canada who mentioned that his local store has the self-service lanes as well as specialized lanes that the disabled workers can staff. He also noted that shopping carts can't be had without a coin deposit that releases each one from its mechanical prison. I thought the second concept very progressive and interesting. I thought the third a great idea except for the increasing rise in the homeless who use them for luggage storage. But I won't digress into macro-economics here.

We, my friend (an attorney) and I, had a long debate on the employer's obligation to hire disabled workers and the public patience with these specialized lanes. While I thought I would be more likely to shop at a store with these lanes (thus offsetting the cost to the business for specialized lanes) he said that a lot of consumers are too impatient (sometimes it seems it can take a longer time to move through the modified checkstand line).

I see the modified checkstand as a reasonable accommodation for a worker's special need. Therefore I can be a little more reasonable and modify my own needs to be accommodating to a fellow human- being with less employment options through no fault of their own. Whereas I refuse to try the self-checkout lanes merely because I see them as a method for hastening getting rid of real people jobs rather than merely annoyingly time-consuming to educate myself on how to use them correctly. The way jobs are disappearing from our economy, and considering the trend has been to make policies (and Supreme Court judgments) against labor, I figure it is in my own self-interest to slow this process down. Regardless how insignificant my individual contribution may be. At least until some decent job creation policies exist to transfer people being cut in one industry to new service based jobs in other industries hits the employment scene.

Eventually though, I am well aware, the overall consumer demand for the lowest prices will win out.

The working-class public screams at outsourcing and corporate labor practices yet they still drool over having a Wal-mart in town. In my view it comes down to that dichotomy we all face--do I act as an individual or do I act for the benefit of others. The hypocrisy between lower prices or living wage employment practices though is not just in the corporate offices and inside our own homes. It exists in local governmental practices as well.

I am still trying to figure out why Greeley doesn't have a strong Mom and Pop sector in competition with these big guns. Basically, if I am correct, Safeway and Soopers (Kroger) have been battling out for the main local marketshare in retail grocery. For a while I thought Kroger a subsidiary of Safeway but I checked the corporate website and decided that is not true. There are rumors on the Internet back in 2003 that Wal-mart owns both but that also is not true (nor would it be healthy for anyone but Wal-mart, Safeway, and Kroger investors). Of course Wal-mart is in town along with Sam's club (Wal-mart). That creates a whole different pressure to drive down labor costs locally.

I'd love to see Smart and Final pop up here for the wholesale competition to Sam's club. But they aren't big enough to take on Sam and smart enough not to try. I haven't found any other option for the restaurant wholesale industry locally and this may be why the local restaurants are sadly lacking (my personal opinion) tasty and better fare.

I am told there were some other options until recently and I know Avanza is still here in town (but that has more a niche speciality line of goods and is not directly in Safeway's target market segments--so they get to escape--for now). My own biggest pet-peeve is I can't find a decent local farmer's market without driving out of town. Where are all the small farmer's?

I'll also admit I have a special pet peeve with Safeway's Club member program. Kroger's Soopers has a similar but less devious tracking program. I didn't have to give up any of my personal information to get a Sooper card. Therefore I shop at Soopers the most.

I've been in marketing. I know how these programs work. I've also gone through union organization from the management perspective in this industry (another story for another time--I left this industry a while ago). Many middle-management jobs are eliminated by this program through the increased efficiency in collecting consumer marketing data. I understand and agree in the efficiency part--it is a necessary part of staying competitive. It can lead to a better product mix selection for consumers. On the flip side I don't see these operational savings being passed on to the consumer although the consumers are the ones giving up their information in the name of "savings". But instead I believe the cost savings of this system translated into higher executive pay and ROI for the company. It used to be companies had to pay and work a whole lot harder to get consumer's to give up that kind of data. There was a value exchange taking place and the consumer often received real incentives for giving up their personal shopping data. Now it is no longer clear that happens.

It is clear that if you don't use Safeway's member card system you'll be forced to pay higher prices. It is not clear that the card is tied uniformly to lowered sale prices. They use the term "money-saving promotions" rather than sale prices for a reason. It is clear it is "exclusive" to those giving u their information to get a card. And most consumers don't understand the internal systems or technology well enough to "beef" about any of this. ( Which is why I am special. I always have to analyse any system. Bad genetics I guess. I didn't get the sheep's costume at birth.) It irks me though that many consumers appear to not even understand how valuable all that personal information is to the company and don't give a second thought to giving it up freely. I don't even need to mention that there is little restriction on its use and, likely, a pretty profit made from reselling this data. Ever wonder how some of those junk mailers get your address? If the savings were being passed on to consumers then Safeway would have long ago won the competitive wars locally by having substantially lower prices and better business practices Instead I think Safeway's competitive edge comes from acquisitions and the use of economy of scale to push out competitors.

But least I forget my focus on the blog for the last few postings... my primary interest remains why local government seems to still be pushing for more mega-corporate entities rather than seriously building up the Mom and Pop sector or refurbishing declining sections of town containing Mom and Pops. I'm still looking for more information on what is going on behind the scenes. I'd still like to see some direct representation for local farmers and quality fresh produce for local consumers. Also I don't understand why the public doesn't seem to be too troubled by the decay of the local sector. Interesting town.

I am having fun exploring these ideas.

Gnarly Trombone: Self-service: Swim through Jell-O | Greeley Tribune

This is supposed to be the newest labor-saving wonderful thing, and we should use it, because it saves energy or trees or something good like that.

However.

I hate self-service lanes.

A lot of our stores have them set up now, so you can “conveniently” check yourself out, pay through a slot, and be on your way. Lickety-split.

But it never works that way.

NEVER.

Chicken Little and Greeley Chain Stores

There have been a few times when I feel like a rube. For most of my life I have lived in towns a bit smaller than Greeley. I have also spent a good deal of my life working two or three jobs at the same time. It's the single parent/college story--but I'll save it for later. My sons are adults now and on their own so it has become my story of survival, rather than one of political necessity, to tell. Besides today I want to explore the world of shopping.

I've never been a good consumer. I've been in both marketing and education fields. This background spoiled me on the idea of brands unless that brand denotes high quality in comparison to the competitors. I've also have never been a froo-froo girl. In seventh grade I'd rather go out and play baseball or tetherball than get stuck in the bathroom with a bunch of gaggling-geesey cheerleaders redoing their hair and nail polish. True, that didn't make me very popular, but it has saved me wads of money and social anxiety over the years.

So while some of my friends were happy to hear that Greeley has well-groomed shopping malls, a Macy's, a Target, and a Lowe's, plus my fellow geeks are no doubt thrilled that I finally live in a place abundant with hardware and computer stores to boot, I have been a bit disappointed thus far. I looked to find the locally owned stores (not franchised nor chain joints) as I like to shop locally owned small businesses as often as possible for my daily life needs but did not find a flourishing sector.

Since I am single and only purchasing for me (I'd use French and do the word "me" the Ms. Piggy-way but I don't really want to disclose my penchant for invented grammar and spelling just yet) I have developed my own rule of thumb pocketbook-economics for locally owned goods. I am willing to spend from ten to twelve percent more to purchase from a locally owned store. After twelve percent, depending on the good, and I feel that horrible monster known only as Gouge digging through my purse. If I can't find what I want locally within my rule of thumb then I will source out to the bigger chains or go to the Internet.

My volunteer local tour guides think I am a bit twisted on this topic. It is an economic strategy I have honed over the years and worked out the numbers on doing community-based marketing. I certainly didn't invent it. I just like the idea of local system sustainability and feeding the local economic multipliers. I am not a proponent of Buy Local--exclusively. I've seen the math multiplier effect for this concept and it doesn't work in the long run. But, moderation in everything, there are prudent Buy Local practices that can be quite helpful.

I do confess though to having a bit of trouble sourcing out the Mom & Pop's in the local area. Even the restaurants I have been to so far are chained or franchised. I found some diversity around the college but the further out I go into the wilds of the prairie the fewer I have seen. But before I get scads and wads of email I have to declare I haven't looked everywhere yet. It is a process.

I have gone shopping at a couple of the local marketplaces for food. Beautiful, big, stores with loads of friendly checkers. Moms fresh out of the gym with babies and toddlers in tow looking for fresh veggies abound. My cheeky nickname--"Stepfordville". Always fascinating to watch the social interactions.

After a fruitless search on labels and fresh food to come up with locally sourced food and beverage products I turned to a kind happy produce guy. When told of my plight he looked a bit perplexed and acknowledged I wouldn't be able to find what I was looking for inside that store. Ordering is done from central command. Central command is not local it is state-wide. Central command gives the department heads a list of choices and the department heads are not allowed any write-ins.

Bummer!

Time to find a new store with its own local merchandiser or a Farmer's Market. My taste palette prefers organic veggies and I do grow some of my own having been raised in a rural area. But my checkbook prefers the price on bulk produced nonorganic greens. My preference and my checkbook get into an argument every time I go shopping. A quick mental mediation and I end up purchasing the greens that are known to have more pesticide use on them as organic and the rest of my purchases come from the bulk bins.

Well I have digressed into the mundane details of life and I can hear my readers snore. I'll throw a picture in of the Greeley sky for pleasurable effect and leave off the shopping chat for now but will return to this subject later on when I have collected more informed direction and opinion on the topic.

Until tomorrow... or the next day I find time to write.